LAST week I had a great night in Limerick. I was down to host an evening of music, debate and political cabaret in the wonderful Dolan’s Warehouse. The event was organised by the Northside Learning Hub.
It runs outreach programmes, working with schools and colleges to make education available to as many people in the northside of Limerick as possible (www.learninghub.ie).
There were many teachers in the crowd and the honesty of the discussion was revealing. The teachers wanted to teach, but there was a sense, particularly amongst the primary ones, that they are overburdened. One teacher — a young man — spoke of his despair trying to teach the 4th-class syllabus to children of varying abilities, where he could see children being left behind in front of his eyes. These children will slip back academically, becoming alienated initially from the classroom and then, ultimately, from the school.
On the way back on the train, I was thinking of the extraordinary waste of money that is being poured in to keep Anglo open and considered what could be done with just a fraction of that money. The Anglo bailout will add as much as €20bn to our national debt; can you imagine what spending the equivalent on creating a new education system would deliver?
The crisis gives us permission to change this country, to reset the clock and learn from our mistakes. As unemployment continues its inexorable rise, a recent academic paper byKevin Denny, of UCD, is a timely reminder that economics is about people, not debt.
Debt is simply an accounting identity; the real productive power of an economy is its people. Education and learning is not just about a workforce or about training, it is about making our lives richer. Sometimes this point is overlooked in the constant economisation of the education debate. Sure, having an educated workforce is important but having a learned society is even more so.
Making children happy in school is now essential because, as unemployment rises, the old trends where social class determines educational achievement means more and more children will fail in school.
The reason Denny’s work on educational opportunity for working people is so invaluable is not just because he is a respected economist but because he means it.
Many years ago, I worked as an economist in the Central Bank. Back then there was a dreadful hierarchy in the place, which separated the economists in the bank from everyone else. Because economists in the central bank had to have a minimum of a good masters degree in economics, we were mistakenly put on some sort of ludicrous pedestal vis-a-vis the rest of the staff. I couldn’t believe it when I entered the place — but that was just the way.
It was the old Ireland defined by a weird type of class and education apartheid.
Kevin Denny’s dad, Harry Denny, was a porter in the bank and every time he’d drop up to my office doing his rounds, he talked about his son “Kevin the economist” who was studying at the LSE. Harry was a lovely man and he was so proud of his son. He was proud of Kevin because his son had done what he, Harry, never had the chance to do, which was to use his education. Kevin laughed years later when I first met him and mentioned the chats I had with his dad: “Not many lads from Ballyfermot become senior lecturers of economics.”
And it’s not changing: the abolition of university fees has, according to Denny’s recent paper, made little or no difference to who gets into college (http://www.ucd.ie/geary/static/publications/workingpapers-/gearywp201026.pdf).
In fact, the abolition of university fees 15 years ago did not improve the chances of poorer children getting into university. The paper also explains why this is the case. There was and still is a shortage of places in university, not a shortage of students. The poorer kids who did manage to get the points were normally on the grant anyway so they didn’t pay in the first place. The middle-class children and their families just got a subsidy for an expense that they were planning to make all along.
The most important thing is how the children do in the Leaving Cert. Poor children do badly in the Leaving full stop. For example, after 15 years of free university it is the case that if your father is a professional, you will, on average, get about 90 points more than if your father is a manual worker.
If your dad is “other white collar”, you are likely to get about 50 points more. If your dad is out of work, it will “cost” you about 30 points.
Now think of those figures in the context of the tens of thousands of fathers who have lost their jobs in recent months. If, as seems quite likely, these men find it difficult to get another job, what will the impact on their families be? According to Denny, the impact is significantly detrimental and, if nothing is done to change the education system, will lead to more kids failing in school.
Now let’s join the dots and link the evening in Limerick, the Denny paper and Anglo. We know that stuffing money into Anglo is a waste of cash, we also know that letting children fail in school is not only a waste of cash but it is a dangerous waste of people, both for their own sake and for society’s sake. And now we know that the Leaving Cert is the block. So why not use the Anglo money to fix it? Let Anglo go bust and start again.
If we were to make a massive investment in education to the tune of €20bn we could transform this country. How many proud dads like Harry Denny could we have?
But instead we will use this money to bail out creditors in a bust bank that doesn’t even have an ATM facility.
A country that makes such choices deserves to go bust because only through a massive crisis that sweeps away the status quo can such a place change.
Seeing as Irl plc has the most skilled and well educated udole queue on the planet, why invest in providing competitor economies with more productive labour?.Too many people is the problem, a result of Irish women refusing to regulate their fertility.We paid dearly for this mistake in the eighties and few lessons have been learned.Expecting inexperienced Irish workers to compete against trained and qualified staff who will work in the Irish economy for a pittance was always going to end in tears.Shame on the dummies in the Trade Union movement for supporting such a move.
Great article, in the dangerous and toxic Alice in Wonderland propaganda world of FF we live under, it is precisely such areas as education as a right and a key support of decent society that are most threatened by the waste that is Anglo. re Malcolm’s link previous article also http://bit.ly/c3IyCP John Fitzgerald is one of the Alices I refer to above @ 28, surprised Pat McArdle wasn’t interviewed along with Lenny and Clowen and they could’ve got a quartet RTE/Pravda thing going! But the ‘return to growth figures’ John mentions from your link “he forecasts annual growth zooming up… Read more »
The most important thing is how the children do in the Leaving Cert. Poor children do badly in the Leaving full stop. For example, after 15 years of free university it is the case that if your father is a professional, you will, on average, get about 90 points more than if your father is a manual worker. If your dad is “other white collar”, you are likely to get about 50 points more. If your dad is out of work, it will “cost” you about 30 points. When I gave private piano lessons as a student, I was teaching… Read more »
During the past 40 years, more and more money has been spent on education .The result is the most attractively remunerated teachers on the planet, working the fewest hours.The economy is in a bigger mess than ever-there seems to be a negative colleration between education spending and national financial solvency.Ray Crotty dealt with this , as well as measures to reduce Irelands crazy birth rate in Ireland In Crisis (1986).25,000 school leavers per annum is an optimum figure, not 65,000!.Pass the durex.
While I agree with your basic point about the greater added-value of investing in our children’s futures rather than burning more money in the banking ‘incinerator’, experience with the Health Service shows us how little can be achieved with money alone. Most of the extra billions ‘invested’ there ended up making a quick exit via payroll costs for increased salaries and ever more management headcount. Any plan for Education must learn from this. History tells us however, that when the ‘Social Partners’ get their greasy fingers on the ATM machine that is the taxpayer, we soon forget learnings from the… Read more »
This issue is very close to my heart as I came from a so called disadvantaged area, went to a disadvantaged school, some school mates ended in prison, a couple were shot dead because of involvement in drugs etc, despite all that, and because I had a solid home life and an innate curiosity I got my Leaving Cert on the second attempt (appalling and almost useless examination system), got my degree, a 1H Masters and went to work for the European Commission. I can honestly say, almost every barrier was put in the way to me achieving all that,… Read more »
This is appearing in today’s Guardian
Ireland: Shattered Dreams
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/26/ireland-economic-collapse
@G
Great post, but I don’t subscribe to the need for preschool between 0-3 proposed by Finlay. At that age the child needs the personal attention of mam/dad not anonymous baby-feeder production line assembly cacaphony
Looks like EU is on a shopping spree:
http://www.eurotribune.eu/?p=11117
http://www.eurotribune.eu/?p=11249&l=0&idioma=2
Education will only work when the population sees it as a way out and demands standards. That is one of the things that happened in Northern Ireland. The “Nationalist” population took to education to get past discrimination in jobs.all levels of the population demanded the standards from the schools that would ensure entry to 3rd level education. Besides putting money into education we need to create the awareness of the benefits.
In September 2008 I was in hospital having routine surgery. While I was in my bed one day reading, an old Ringsend lady who had trouble staying quiet for more than 10 minutes was bemoaning the banks and the government. That’s fair enough but she predicted we’d be back to the 1980s and all would be lost which I didn’t believe.
I threw my eyes to heaven in my middle class arrogance.
She just might be right.
DMcW is totally wrong , more public spending is not what we need, we need cuts the more agressive the better. DMcW is just a populist now he used to be an economist but he totally ignores the debt crisis. Yes we need to stop Anglo from getting anymore public money we need to close it down, but we also need to tackle our deficit and debt. Our teachers are the best paid in Europe even after the cuts and pension levy. An average teacher here takes home about 2600 per month while in Poland they take home 300 per… Read more »
The local daily newspaper recorded Davids visit to Limerick and quoted David when he said : He was optimistic and hopeful for the city and that he liked the wonderful Georgian buildings .I believe David is always positive what he says and does so with hope .Unfortunately to have that hope realised medicine must be admininistered and that is what David has done in this article. May I suggest to David to attend one of the forthcoming Novenas during the month of June at The Redemtorist Fathers , Limerick .This is annual event .I say this ,aside from the religious… Read more »
DAVID……………………………………………………………?
I THINK your article raise a FUNDAMENTAL QUESTION.
WHAT is the BAILOUT for ANGLO been used FOR?
Is the bailout been used to pay out depositers closing down their accounts. YES or NOT?
I am amazed to have come across very many bank letters to business people in Clare and Limerick seeking ‘Formal Demands’. I am saying this because I am fearing for these families and the consequences that the Banks will pursue .
The actions of FF to save a corrupt Irish Bank is distroying terminally good Irish businesses everywhere.
This is Political Treason .Where is the Opposition?
QUESTION FOR ALL POSTERS…………………….?
DO you know what the anglo bail out is been used for?
Free college fees gave me my start Wednesday May 26 2010 IT was with great sadness that I read the opinions of Professor Colm Harmon (‘Abolition of college fees was not a good idea’, Irish Independent, May 25). I grew up in a council estate in a typical working-class environment in which money was extremely tight. Had it not been for the abolition of college fees my parents would not have been able to put me through college, something they desperately wanted to do for myself and my brother. I am now an accountant with one of the biggest life… Read more »
Strange that Dr. Alan Aherne should have a portrait of Mr. Alan Greespan in his office…..
“After stints teaching at a number of universities and working for accountants Coopers and Lybrand, and Bank of Ireland Treasury, he worked for the US Central bank — the Federal Reserve.
Among his tasks was the preparation of research notes for Alan Greenspan, one of the most influential global financial figures of the past 20 years.”
http://www.independent.ie/education/features/economics-prof-predicts-a-boom-1660208.html
Fianna Fail are the Sponsors of Bank Formal Demands sent to all Households and Businesses in the country . Is this also Sponsored Terrorism?
http://bit.ly/daEY7e
Covidien jobs all gone. Followed by Boston Scientific job losses Clowen lays his own Tullamore hinterland to waste…
I am for free education. We should not penalise the educated for educating their children. The educated are a little better off and have the foresight to save in many cases. Why penalise them? The poorer are in general uneducated and the cycle of generational under educaton self perpetuates. These need some active assistance as the sucess rates for breaking the negative is low. We are now entering a phase where the educated are getting poor and are genuinely struggling and we are suggesting to cut yet another aid for educating our kids?? Neo Liberal elitist hogwash and DMcW’s vague… Read more »
What a depressing and pointless article . This is Ireland . FF care about one thing only . And that is the party and their position within the party and the connections and rewards that it offers . For years Ireland has had a housing boom which has made housing unaffordable for the average person unless they were willing to take out 110 % mortgages or the real scam ‘ interest only mortgages ‘ ( I have no financial training , but even I know that interest only is for speculators ) . Now you have a situation where NAMA… Read more »
I cannot for the life of me understand how a economy that is trying to reduce its costs is praying for another housing boom so that Nama will break even , I spoke to some people in Ireland the other day who were really worried over Morgan Kelly’s article . I printed it out and I read it and I reread it and reread it again . With all due respect to the him the only thing I get from it is that Irish banks have massive debt and massive ongoing debt as people cannot repay 3000 grand mortgages .… Read more »
Firstly, education is neither a right nor an entitlement. It is a choice. Standing over kids trying to encourage them to read does not always work. Some kids have already inherited characteristics from their parents that are not condusive to a life of study. Education is the product of hard work. But, ironically the social mores that exist in Ireland, define progress as getting to a position where you don’t have to work. And this relates to David’s comment about “hierarchies”. It is also connects to the Golf Club mentality. In the age of the internet, is it possible to… Read more »
Folks, some of the misinformed coments here are really sending my blood-pressure through the roof.
Since I do not wish to die and leave my wife and children alone, just because of these comments, I will wait until I am calm before I comment.
What a great job the government and media have done to demonise educators as public servants!
So *many* of you, supposed “enlightened-ones” have fallen for it. Shocking!
via Karl Wheelans blog, by Frank Barry:
Keynes’ famous lecture on economic experimentation, delivered at UCD in April 1933, has recently become available online.
http://www.jstor.org/pss/30094997
Deco.
‘The banks are bust ? Probably true. But look at all the waste and misallocation and unrealistic nonsense that went on. This is what created the bankruptcy. And we live in a country where the establishment is trying to prevent any intellectual ‘joining the dots’ development from occurring…..to save their own hides.’
SPOT ON.
DANGER : DANGER : DANGER
FULL MOON has arrived so SLOW DOWN
SLOW DOWN
SLOW DOWN
This is an unsponsored notice to readers to Save Your Life
You may return to Normal Pulse by Saturday Safely.Until then STOP if you can and RELAX
Straight Line :
Did you know you can draw a straight line down from Eyjafjallajokull to Eyeries in west Cork and both names are Icelandic .Can this tell us something ?
I think this John Allen fella has forgotten to take his medication. Perhaps John you should STOP POSTING your B.S. and then we can RELAX. By the way anyone notice the time lag after David publishes his thoughts and then everyone else gets on board.
stiofanco2 – your volcanic and a perfect example of how the full moon works.Thanks so much for demonstrating this .Evidence speaks louder and this is an economic contributor factor to GNP.
The first part of any healing process is to remove the root cause. Yesterday the bill to have early by-elections was defeated 72-68 and so far, it seems no one will wind up in gaol. Amnesty International declares as “frightening” the extent to which state bodies can withhold information from the highest elected officials of the land. We obfuscate the rights of our children with the bull$hit laws that are supposed to protect them and the government has blocked any proposals on a referendum for a set of rights for children. Education is it? We’ll give ya education if you… Read more »
Wooohooo 3% growth returns for 2011 !!!!!!!!!!!!! Watch out for this in yer crow’s nests:) We’re about to get pummelled with statistics and propaganda telling us of return to growth for e.g 2011 of 3% statistics most likely based on GNP. We’re also to be pummelled with propaganda on reductions required for expenditure on education/health and other social services. Plus people like Elderfield et al will soften up any prospect of help being given to taxpayers in mortgage arrears because of ‘moral hazard’, a point ignored when pouring money into the banks. Plus young and old will be encouraged to… Read more »
@ John,
talk about the full moon, it was impossible for me to set up my photo gear so quick, but last night at around 2AM, it is never totally dark on the horizon at this time of the year in Donegal, the full moon created a rainbow over the bay. I have never seen this before, just stunning.
Human beings treated like battery-hens:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/concern-over-human-cost-overshadows-ipad-launch-1983888.html
Kabbalah – the Jews have perfected the art of holding the past with the future while continually interpreting the annals of their great masters with the current events of today .This cohesiveness is a sacred bond that has preserved their traditions in their education over the centuries.Thus their practice of ‘Reverence’ and ‘ Humility’ strenthens their desire to always remain successful as a people and a belief system.We in Ireland have lost all of this and our displacement from the past takes away from us the future we all crave for.Thus in this void Crime prevails and nourishes itself stronger… Read more »
Around the world with Joseph Stiglitz, calmer, no jumping around, fast editing documentary, solid, paced, with good interviews………..
http://www.stiglitz-thefilm.com/html/trailer.html
Hi David, Another good piece from you and it raises a number of interesting points and touches on some well-known, if not currently solved, issues. DavidMcW> he could see children being left behind in front of his eyes. These children will slip back academically, becoming alienated initially from the classroom and then, ultimately, from the school. One problem with the schooling system is that the teachers do not teach individually but instead are generally more interested in just getting the class through the day. Yes, they have a general interest in their children and their class as a whole, but… Read more »
Excellent interview with Professor David Harvey on Hardtalk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtyZY9sKv2w
@ Malcolm Mc Clure – 1 I was in Galway today attending the newstalk given by George Hook .I enjoyed it and was fun and I think you would have too .I believe that GH has picked Ml Graham to push those ideas he believes in and because Ml G is an outsider/ foreigner he might lead the way for the rest of us .George is genuinely concerned about what is really happening in our little country .I think you would like Ml G eventhough he can be a nutter ; and 2 Aer Lingus wrote to me today and… Read more »
The financial markets are feeling very positive about themselves. Giving themselves a congratulatary slap on the back. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/stocks-jump-as-china-denies-euro-asset-sales-2010-05-27?dist=afterbell the reason is that China has stopped short of saying that EuroZone debt is a bad investment. So this is a reassurance. And when there is a fair amount of things to be fearful abot, reassurance does this sort of thing. Also there were fears that Spain was sitting on an imploding banking system. The Spanish government agreed an austerity plan – after two years dithering. This will actually reduce Spanish GDP. But critically it will arrest the dangerous borrowing by the… Read more »
Folks, Did you see this?
http://youtu.be/5D0VhS8qXT0
(via @EvertB)
Black Cat, you may not have been here, the last time this was said, so I will say it, again:
Batton-down the hatches; buy tinned-foods. Store them. (long shelf-life stuff, like beans, spam, peas).
Plastic-bottled water is no good; glass only.
Store fire-wood. Get solar/dynamo-powered flashlights.
*Make* provision.
Etc.
…. got it?
Blackpool Casinos in Blackpool –
My inside information tells me that already cash takings are falling rapidly in this resort as we speak. How many tokens does it take to take a knock ?Or a candy floss blown in your face ?Or a Hard Rock cafe to break your teeth implants?Or how higher can these mini skirts can go?Or shoot a duck?
Do we need mirror warps to see ourselves?And a wheel of fortune ?
How many more Clowns do we need to fix a carnival bulb?
I expect that this is an analogy for something else but Blackpool is failing partly because the woman who inherited the Pleasure beach from her grandfather is now charging 25 quid to get in the gates whereas it used to be free – this stops the old grannies going in for a wander around and a cup of tea orkids who have just enough for one ride – that’s what the locals are complaining about – Blackpool is an incredibly ugly place but the people are lovely –
American joke. Q. What created the subprime crisis ? A. Subprime thinking. There has been a lot of subprime thinking in the US. And the careerists who created the sub-prime thinking have got bailed out. But not just the US. there has been a lot of subprime thinking in Ireland (plus all the other members of STUPID). With respect to Education, the biggest problem is our lack of meritocracy outside of the education system. In other words you get educated in a system that is meritocratic until the 17th/18th June of your life. And then after that the cronyism and… Read more »
The jobs market 2010.
http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/chipper-receives-400-applications-for-dishwashing-job-459413.html
That is serious competition. Much tougher than in the 1980s.
I presume this also applies to this page………..
DERMOT AHERN warned people this week that they could be sued for defamation if they posted defamatory comments on their Facebook page. The reality that comments can come back to haunt you, especially online, is hardly a new one. And yet we keep putting them out there through Facebook, Twitter and blogging.
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2010/0528/1224271296361.html
Social Control 101….
There’s a ‘singles’ ad on this page now (Zoosk), I wonder if the company in question thought all these ‘sad bloggers’ need to get a life/get a girl………..any comment David?
Seems a bit odd, doubt Sitglitz or Krugman would go for it…….
McKinsey report made me try to think a bit:)
http://bit.ly/d2mmla