Vesela arched her black eyebrows, dragged deeply on her contraband Marlboro, narrowed her dark eyes, and snarled, “David, Kosovo is Serbia and Serbia is Kosovo”.
Vesela was one of Serbia’s leading, liberal political commentators who had opposed the war in Bosnia and Croatia and was an implacable critic of Slobodan Milosevic. Yet even she maintained that Kosovo was different. The Serbs could lose Croatia, Bosnia, Slovenia, Macedonia and even Montenegro, but Kosovo would never be relinquished.
We were in the Serbian Writers’ Club — probably the most famous restaurant in Belgrade and the fulcrum of what was described at the time as “Weimar Serbia”.
In 1997, the country was battered by sanctions, hyper-inflation and the realisation that it had lost the war for Yugoslavia. In addition, it was beginning to sink in that the atrocious murder of innocents in Bosnia and Croatia had, rightly, turned the country into an international pariah.
In response, the Serbs reacted to all this chaos — like Berliners in the 1920s — by turning their capital, Belgrade, into a large impromptu party, with new bars, clubs and underground theatres opening nightly. Belgrade laughed with the gallows’ humour of a condemned people.
Within two years of that late- night Belgrade conversation, an isolated and morally corrupt Serbia was at war with the US and NATO over Kosovo — a war it had no hope of winning.
This perplexing country sustained more than two months of daily air strikes by NATO which pushed an already battered economy over the cliff.
Ultimately, Serbia surrendered, having achieved nothing. The historic province of Kosovo — which to the Serbs is as integral to Serbia as Munster is to us — was being wrestled from it by an international community which had lost patience with this delinquent country.
But why were the Serbs prepared to go to war with NATO over a province that is now 90pc Albanian Muslim, and why should we care? Surely the Serbs, by their murderous actions in Bosnia, have lost all legitimacy anyway? Even if you believe that Kosovo should be independent, are there any lessons for the rest of Europe from the politics of ethnic demography?
Let’s do something unfashionable: let’s put ourselves in Serbian shoes. The Serb view is, oddly enough, very like that of the Palestinians. Although they won’t admit this, historically, the Serbs of Kosovo — like the Arabs of Jerusalem — thought they were top dogs.
For centuries, the local small Jewish population was treated poorly by the Arabs of Palestine. Similarly, the Serbs of Kosovo treated the Albanians appallingly.
Under Arab rule, the Jews were governed by the Charter of Omar which laid out 12 rules (not unlike the Penal Laws) which dhimmi or non-Muslims had to abide by to be allowed to live in peace. The dhimmi also had to pay an annual tax for the privilege of being left alone.
Likewise, the Serbs treated the Albanians as second class citizens.
Like the Palestinians with Jerusalem, the Serbs see Kosovo as their heartland. This is the cradle of Serb civilisation and they have always lived there. Like the Palestinians who, with their Arab allies, declared war on the Jews in 1948 in reaction to the UN setting up the State of Israel, the Serbs sent their troops into Kosovo province in reaction to the UN threat of an Albanian State in 1998.
The Serbs lost this war in 1999 as did the Palestinians in 1948 and, as a result, thousands of Serbs in Kosovo became refugees in their own land.
Those Serbs who are left in Kosovo, like the one million Israeli Arabs who are subjects of a Jewish State, are now given the choice to remain in Kosovo as subjects of an Albanian State.
The Israelis argue that the “facts on the ground” in and around Jerusalem — which is shorthand for Jewish majority areas — should dictate the sovereignty of the city.
In the same way, the Albanians argue that as they are now the majority, Kosovo is theirs.
Looked at from the Serb perspective, the Albanians have out-bred the Serbs and they are now being rewarded for such prodigious fertility.
Furthermore, the Albanians argue (like the Israelis) that they did not start the original war. Ultimately the victors contend that the Serbs (and Palestinians) are simply reaping what they have sowed.
Albanian politicians have also made the arguments that the Serbs have all of Serbia in which to live. Many Israelis make the same argument when they suggest that the Palestinians have the entire Arab world in which to live while middle- eastern Jews only have tiny Israel.
In addition, it is not unusual to hear Albanians and Israelis make the analogy with displaced Sudeten Germans in the Czech Republic when discussing the displaced Serbs and Palestinians.
The Sudeten Germans — who lived in what was then Czechoslovakia — sided with Hitler in 1938. They were expelled in 1945 and, by losing the war and being implicated with German atrocities, the Sudeten Germans lost their right to return to their Czech homeland.
The three million Sudeten Germans became permanent refugees in Germany, just as many thousands of Kosovar Serbs are refugees in Serbia and displaced Palestinians are forced to live in Jordan and South Lebanon.
Serbs are not usually portrayed as victims but in this case they see themselves as a put-upon race who have been penalised by the politics of demography.
Unfortunately for the Serbs, they remain a pariah nation and many European countries, including Ireland, have accepted the logic of numbers. Kosovo is now Albanian and Muslim.
In the course of the next decade, it looks highly likely that the remaining Serbs in Kosovo will be forced out, bringing to an end eight centuries of European and Balkan history.
Granted, this account of Kosovo’s history is jaundiced and probably inaccurate, but that’s the way the Serbs see it.
We in Ireland have the experience of the North and know that when a land is disputed both sides create their own myths and martyrs. That said, and you don’t have to sympathise with the Serb view of history, there is one lesson that we can all take from the independence of Kosovo.
The EU now accepts the principle that an existing country can be partitioned if the demographic balance changes.
Does this have ramifications for Europe’s future? Given differing birth rates between Europe’s Christians and Muslims, could we see the Independent Caliphate of Piedmont or the Islamic Republic of Jutland?
It would be unwise to overstate the case, but the implications of the Kosovo move for an aging Christian continent facing mass Muslim immigration might be worth considering.
The only thing that connects Serbia/Kosova and Palestine is Istanbul. And Serb and Albanian history is complex in the extreme, and both positions comes from a ‘who was there first’ type of argument. Where for years blatant self interest ruled and ancient hatreds acted as foreign policy. Where the movement of 1st millennium tribes is as remembered today as if it were yesterday. And the actions of all during the WW2 were nothing at all new. Wars in that area, are a manifestation of tribe not religion. Did you ask what a Serb calls an Albanian or the other way… Read more »
And there is at least another fifteen groups/tribes/peoples/nations with an oar in the water. And as to the sub-groups, well, pick a number. You might have spoken to a Serb, but from where, and when did she get there.
A point worth mentioning about Israel is that it has had a huge influx of Jews for years now. They are allowed stay there just because they are Jews, not because they can pick up a screwdriver or hammer nails into wood (never done by jews as far as I know) but on the qualification of being Jewish and this infuriates a lot of Palestinians. The EU policy makers need to examine the social and economic impact of this influx through member states and from outside member states. Maybe the Universities could undertake such a task, project future possibilities and… Read more »
David, thanks for pressing some ‘controversial’ (sensible) buttons with this post. As Mrs Merton famously said: “Let’s have a heated debate!“ You are not ‘overstating the case’, the possibility is real. An Islamic Munster or Ulster? What about an Islamic Mercia? It’s already happening by incremental gains. I grew up in the ‘Little Ireland’ that was Small Heath / Sparkhill in Birmingham. It is now an almost exclusively Muslim ‘community’ / enclave / ghetto / fortress of ‘Dar-el-Harb’ reclaimed from the Infidels. Depending on your view of ‘reality’. I know devout yet tolerant Muslims living there who are extremely concerned… Read more »
David, great article!
You mention Israel and 1948. Well it looks like the UN is about to create a separate Palestinian state removing land granted to Israel.
The UN has pledged 7.4 billion! This is a recipe for disaster.
http://www.jnewswire.com/article/2269
surely David that Kosovo lies on the fault line between the USA & Russia. The EU will just go along with whatever the USA tells them to do, hand over private data on EU citizens, acknowledge an independent Kosovo etc.. BTW The Palestinians acknowledged an independent Kosovo before the Israelis did, I believe Israel is still mulling their diplomatic response. As for the Serbs, they did kick the Nazis out on their own. and it’s much easier to fear the Muslims than it is to compete against India , China and other EU states for technical excellence. A way to… Read more »
“…the Serbs see Kosovo as their heartland. This is the cradle of Serb civilisation and they have always lived there.”
The Serbs haven’t always lived in Kosovo or even in the Balkans.
The Serbs are Slavs — and the Slavs migrated into the Balkan region in the 6th century from further north — probably in/around what is known as Poland today.
http://lamar.colostate.edu/~grjan/kosovohistory.html
Kosovo is not serbian , it is a spin used by Serbian Nationalist to attack innocent civilians. They are the only nationalists in the world to celebrate a massive defeat to Ottoman Turks as a proud day. After that day on 14 th century , serbians came under ottoman control , and the albanians later. They always harrassed other minorities in the balkans , tried to supress them ,dreaming of a slavic christian kingdom . There was no place for other communities in their kingdom, especially the muslims(ironically mostly slavic origins). Violent nationalism brought them disaster , not the numbers……
David needs to get rid of this islamophobia as this is becoming too scary for ordinary readers… Demographics is an interesting science , it might work for u or against u depending on what you need as a country. As income levels and capitalization of the markets in the muslim countries accelarate birth rates fall as in the western countries. Turkey s fertility rate has fallen around to 2.2 , which is at replacement. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Fertility_rate_world_map_2.png So muslims do not have hidden agenda to take over the world by producing more children , they have a lot of challenges economically ,… Read more »
When the Kingdom Serbs, Croats and Slovenians was created after the World War I, Serbs had one church in what is Republic of Kosovo today. And no Serbian population there. When Yugoslavia was made on the same territory Tito understood that Kosovo cannot just ‘become’ Serbia, so gave it a status of a ‘Province’ Yugoslavia was a republic with 6 Republics and two Provinces — both part of a Republic of Serbia. Slovenia decided to leave. War lasted three days and Slovenia become Independent. Croatia declared the same — Serbs, that controlled the army started shooting. War broke. A lot… Read more »
I said I wanted a ‘heated debate’……Ok, ‘Hibernia Girl’ do you really wanna go there, gurlfren? The ‘original’ Irish? Wot? As in De Danaan? From where? Germania? Get real. W.T.F was the ‘Irish’ identity in 6th Century? Having recently visited Lindisfarne / Holy Island and claiming myself as the ‘Prophet of The Fifth Province’ :I say: ‘Celtic Blood. Saxon Heart’. And bollix! At what stage did ‘Irishness’ emerge as a coherent identity other than in antagonistic relationship to ‘The Other’, ‘The Oppressor’: Just like the same old same old Hutu / Tutsi / Serb / Croat / Kosovan crap we’re… Read more »
I hope you don’t get banned, that was very intersting post.
oops, I was typing too fast excuse the typo’s or phonetic’s, which ever you wish to call it.
Ill start again,
I hope you don’t get banned, as that was a very interesting post.
If one does get banned, can one not simply re-invent oneself like a balkan state?
fair play Andrew cant comment on the Serbs as i know nothing of their history. But they seem to be stubborn to the point of madness, fighting NATO/US a few years ago and now burning the US embassy…. seems like they are self destructing again. +1 on your comments on Islamophoia. Tariq, People are entitled to have any opinion they want on Islam. No religion or ideology deserves ‘respect’. In fact all authority or ideology — Christianity, Communism, Democracy, Islam, Judaism, Nationalism ……….. they all deserve to be continuously and fearlessly challenged, we despair at Berties antics in the tribunal… Read more »
To Tariq, Obviously you haven’t lived in another EU country’s city. If you had then your view of Islam would be completly different. As I said on a number of posts, I’m a Dublin lad and now living in London for the last 5 years. Before I came over I had a lot of respect for all religions regardless. I had never lived in another EU country ever. When I reached 30, I then emigrated over to London (My first time ever to be in London or any other EU city for that matter). What I saw and experienced in… Read more »
To David McWilliams:
Great article David and keep up the good work on trying to educate ordinary Irish people who don’t know whats happening in Europe today.
Other facts to Look at is how Muslims took control of Spain, Egypt and Turkey. Before Islam came to these countries they were all 100% Christian, were today Egypt and Turkey are 99% Muslim. Also Turkey still denies that they massacured 2 million Christians during World War 1, when they were allied with Germany.
Sub
This is a serious development for Christians everywhere – In Germany ,the young ethnic Turks are refusing to learn German ,so they’re unemployable and they go around taunting the locals that country this will be all theirs in the near future.
I don’t think Ireland should accept ‘s Kosovas declaration of independence because it means every region in the world now can try to set it self up as independent state. A state doesn’t just include the people that are alive today it should include the people that are buried in its graveyards, especially if they died fighting to create the state in the first place. What would we say if Brazil wanted to create an independent state in Co Clare, it would be a handy foot hold for Brazilian beef exports into the EU. The majority of voters in Gort… Read more »
Sorry AndrewGMooney, you would need to do better than that to get banned!
As far as I can recall, we have only banned one person from the site.
David appreciates the dissenting views, the only thing we won’t stand for is people being rude to others (without having a cogent argument to back it up at least).
If you have any complaints or suggestions for the site, please email webmaster@davidmcwilliams.ie
Thanks
Ronan
Ta 4 that, Mr/Ms Webmaster, but – is that a challenge? You wanna put a bet on it? I said I wanted a ‘heated debate’. My Name is Mrs Merton. It’s still a bit tepid for my tastes! Boxing gloves on… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pIWSi8QkOA Let’s deal with the important stuff first. England’s win in Paris tonight means we (they!) are back in the game. I can just see the celebrations now in Glasgow, Dublin and Cardiff…. Is that pint half full of Guinness or half empty of Abbot’s Ale, Andy Mooney? To be fair, the manners of the crowd at Croke Park… Read more »
Nice article David, are we expecting the declaration of a Polish republic of Greater Dublin anytime soon?
Serbia is getting plenty of attention from higher authorities also.
Must be the muslim christian tensions!
Check out the 10 secrets.
http://www.medjugorje.org/
David Your articles are great reads, but sometimes you take the analogy game too far. We could just as happily compare the Serbs to the Israelis rather than the Palestinians (Srebrenica/Chatyla massacres, vast military superiority, recognized nations trying to prevent their neighbours becoming such, attempts to expel large populations, etc, etc). Does an analogy either way help clarify the picture? In this case I think not. But one thing can be guaranteed. Mention the word “Muslem” in your article and ere long out scuttle your “resident fringe” with large chips on their shoulders. Out comes the guy suffering from “ghetto-shock”,… Read more »
Come on thaigah we don’t want to hate anybody here, just protect ourselves from the assholes that hate us. I am in favour of kicking out some immigrants though, especially the illegals, convicts and fraudsters etc. If you bother to read newspapers thaigah you will see more than just a ‘few stale arguments’. Where do you live, in a cave? Have we not got a right to show intolerance sometimes?
Nice use of an ad-hom there, thaigah.
To Thaigah, I just want to live in my own country were my Christian values and my right to live my life as I see fit without being dictated by others. Were you are at present, can you answer the following questions truthfully? Can you visit a Church on Sunday? Can you buy and read a Christian bible? Are women allowed to dress as they see fit? Are women able to work in high skilled or construction professions? Are women allowed to drive? Also do they respect your Irish customs or do you have to adopt to there’s? Are you… Read more »
Other news from Bertie: Ireland recognises Kosovan independence: http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/0229/breaking13.htm As an add-on to my previous ‘newsflash’ from 2018, here’s another one for you all to digest: “Following the break up of the Dis-United Kingdom, the balkanization of the Brit-Irish Isles continues apace. The Independent City-State of Edinburgh has now forged a defended trading route/alliance down through Berwick-upon- Tweed to the sea ports of Independent Anglo-Norwegian ‘Geordie-Land.’ “Wa-hay!” said Presidents Ant and Dec on the steps of Newcastle Town Hall as they promised full military protection for the new arrangements. GÃ idhealtachd Scotland ‘freedom-fighters’ dressed in cast-off costumery from Braveheart continue to… Read more »
Glen Quinn You ask me some very fair questions and I can only answer them relating to the years I was in these countries (I’m in Korea now). In Sudan in the Seventies we used to visit the Cathedral regularly in Khartoum. There were several other churches there. I never tried buying a Bible but there was a very good English-language magazine on sale called “Sudannow” which addressed all sorts of controversial topics, including female circumcision. At the University where I worked women wore the clothing acceptable to their families. Armenian girls wore very short skirts, as I recall, but… Read more »
Thaigah Your last post is interesting and informative and you have certainly lived an interesting life and seen more of the world than I could dream about. Fair play to you. However you seem to be taking others to task for imagined sins. I just didn’t see any evidence here of the extremism and ideology you decry in your earlier post nor did I see any lumping together of Muslims into a single homogenous identity. As for the newspapers I don’t know anyone who believes everything in them – indeed for many papers we could probably agree that about half… Read more »
Thaigh: If one of my questions is answered with a “no” then there is no freedom in that country. I too have travelled throughout the World but I did not go to any Muslim country but I did go to Belarus, Russia and ex Soviet countries. I went to Belarus because that country is run by a dictator and I wanted to see what it is like living under a dictatorship. Dictatorships are formed by either a person, Religion or some other organisation or cult. The end result is the same, people get hurt and I want to make sure… Read more »
Thaigh: If one of my questions is answered with a “no” then there is no freedom in that country. I too have travelled throughout the World but I did not go to any Muslim country but I did go to Belarus, Russia and ex Soviet countries. I went to Belarus because that country is run by a dictator and I wanted to see what it is like living under a dictatorship. Dictatorships are formed by either a person, Religion or some other organisation or cult. The end result is the same, people get hurt and I want to make sure… Read more »
Hi Thaigh, Im probably one of the “resident fringe” you referred to so hopefully this response will explain where Im coming from, I don’t believe your first post represented my views at all but not to worry, I’ll try to spell them out to you again. Thanks for the second post, it was very informative it gave me some understanding of where you’re coming from. To me there is a big distinction between Islam and Muslims, hopefully I’m using the terms correctly and this simple analogy will spell it out. (as much to others reading this as yourself) I really… Read more »
In the late 80s, before the internet, I used to listen to long wave radio. I listened to BBC world service, Radio Moscow, Chinese Radio, and an English speaking service from the Netherlands and one liberty focussed American station. Also I listened to an Iranian station in English. The Iranians were biased against all Western regimes becuase of the Liberal Western media. The Iranians were accustomed to mocking the Americans, by saying that the Jews of New York controlled America, and produced large amounts of bigotry. The Iranians also had a big promise for Britain and France. The Iranians continually… Read more »
Garry: Your post makes good sense to me, particularly your question:”is this asking too much for religions to start formally expunging the more lunatic elements of their outdated teachings and behave?” I think it is premature to expect this from some Islamic authorities (how about the Vatican?), but as you observe the Charter of Human Rights is as good a place as any to start with. As I’ve spent so long outside “Fortress Europe”, I admit I knew nothing about this charter. Now, having read it, it seems to embody what any reasonable person might wish for inside an ever-expanding… Read more »
To get back to the article itself, it’s good to see someone take a view more neutral than the standard “Serbs are the bad guys” we find in the media and modern mythology. The same people who decry the actions of the (mostly Bosnian) Serbs during the 1990’s are often conspicuously silent about the death-toll of Serb civilians during the NATO bombing raids of 1999.
The war crimes of Croats and Albanians during those years also go unmentioned. Maybe Serbian lives are not as ‘valuable’ as those of other Balkan peoples.
It’s about time to recognize the historical right of Kosova (Dardania) to have its destiny fulfilled-That is full independence. Kosova never was a Serbian province. It was there, since the times of birth of European civilization, a very distinct Dardanian/llyrian identity. Always populated by Dardanias who, although under constant pressure of forcefully migration by Serbian shovinism, Tito’s Yugoslavia & Milloshevic’s Serbia, still make up 92% of the population. They speak ilirian language with the dialect GEGE. Serbs always have been a minority there. We know that Serbs appeared in Balkans (then llyria) only by the 6th Century AD, and they… Read more »
I’ve just done a ‘search within this page’ for Tibet. No matches found. Very interesting. Compare and contrast Kosova and Tibet: Tibet is a nation with linguistic, cultural and economic forms stretching back thousands of years before Christianity. It was stolen by the Chinese. It was the re-populated by ‘volunteer’ Han Chinese. Now there is a resistance which threatens to destroy not only the ridiculous conceit of the Olympic Games, but also to expose the tensions inherent in Chinese expansionism, whether economically, strategically or militarily (Darfur, etc). All the hypocrites who [rightly] ranted and raved about Mandela and apartheid remained… Read more »