Leviathan: The Irish Language in the 21st Century, Feb 8th

I attended the above debate. Many interesting points were aired but in the end it was a frustrating and disappointing evening because: 1.The Chairperson, Aoife Ní Thuairisg, showed no ability to control the discussion or to allow panellists with differing views to answer what had just been said. The discussion wandered all over the place from ancient greece to the Irish classroom. Some speakers were allowed to drivel on and on long after the audience had fallen into a slumber with boredom. 2.There were too many panellists. Three would have been better. And essentially R Waghorne and P MacDonnell represented… Read more »

Paragraph 2 should read “cultural darwinists” not social darwinists.

I agree with what Ciarán said with regards to how the debate/discussion was run. In fairness to the host, the panel was hard to control at times, even if she could have done a much better job. It was such a shame that the topic wasn’t discussed, considering the panel and the potential. I came away feeling very frustrated. I think it is very sad that we didnt hear more from Manchán, I am sure he had many more opinions that he had time to express. I wanted to discuss ‘No Béarla’ breifly. My point was going to be that… Read more »

Does anyone know if the debate was recorded?

The leviathan website hasn’t been updated with new audio clips of debates since last June.
http://leviathan.libsyn.org/

This comment is directly to Jessica – You appear to be very passionate about the Irish Language. Your comment about all the things the Irish nation has had to endure though the ages, and yet were all still here, is a testiment to our resiliance. I agree, the language will be around in 50 years. As a matter of fact, when others are gone, the irish and our language will still be around. Slan go foil

To previous post from David: I would argue that our resilience as a people has very little bearing on the survival of the language. Language death occurs when people stop speaking the language, it doesn’t mean that the people themselves fail to survive the catastrophes that life throws at them: famine, invasion, etc. It is true that some of the languages which are now on the brink of extinction are at that point because their people have been wiped out – certain tribal languages in the Amazon for example. But other languages disappear in less extreme circumstances. Take for instance… Read more »

Ciarán, David, Thanks for sharing the same opinion Dave, I think that that irish people are feeling defeated before there has even been a fight. Ciaran, yes, while irish is “dying” in the Gaelteachts, it is “growing” everywhere else. Did you know that there is now a Gaelscoil in every county on the Island of Ireland? I think that says a lot for a language. I spoke of hate for the language, and that leading to its meathlu/decline. THat was all tied into how people suffer it, in school and through their exams. Our government are *finally* taking positive action… Read more »

Only just came across this concept – political caberet – how intriguing! When is the next one? But at 20 EUR, a little steep for the kind of conversation you would have in the pub with your mates anyway. And the great irony? It’s held in a licensed premises – fantastic! Proof the language is dead? Well the only name I recognised from the above list is Clint Velour. Didn’t know the “No Bearla” guy’s name, but now know it so thank you. I have watched about five minutes of the show, in which he thinks being a clever clogs… Read more »

Correction. Ciaran, apogolies, I erroneously attributed Ian’s dismissive point to you. Your insights seems well thought out, and not simplistic.

As an Irish person living in another officially ‘billingual’ country, Canada, I thought I’d give some thoughts on another minority language in a predominantly English-speaking nation. My wife is French-Canadian and I’m currently taking free French courses provided by the Quebec government. Now admittedly, unlike in Ireland, language is the primary and most important feature of French-Canadian identity and its survival and promotion is the principle drive behind Quebec nationalism. I have often wondered if political independence has somehow worked against the Irish language in some ways. The promotion of French here seems primarily about distinguishing Quebec from the rest… Read more »

I think Ray is getting to the nub of the issue. He is hitting on the central question regarding the Irish language: really and truly, do we think that speaking Irish is an essential part of our identity? In my opinion the answer is no. It is a marginal part, but for the majority a central part, no. If you were to ask a sample of people, the majority might respond, yes. But all this tells us is that we cannot get the information we need from a simple yes or no answer. Language, Identity, and Culture, are complexe matters.… Read more »

Ciaran, I think its a difficult thing to do, to prompt people to use Irish when they have a ‘choice’ to use English. There’s been a lot of talk about using Irish more frequently but just look at the language its up against! In terms of cultural power and influence in the world today, no other language comes close. When you look at people from other nations like the Netherlands, Iceland, or Quebec, their command of English as a second language is quite impressive. But they have huge cultural resources to learn from, Hollywood, the popular music industry, premier league… Read more »

My first language was Irish but much of it is forgotten now for lack of use. But my “Irish English” is very real, as is that of my children, who retain a richer sense of language than many of their school friends. Living on the border of Devon and Cornwall, I hear a poetry and in the language around me that points to a rich linguistic past – like at home in Cork – an amalgam of celtic, french and english. It may be true that Cornwall has “lost” its language, but they haven’t lost their powerful use of adjective… Read more »

What’s all this about the Irish language dying out? I’ve listened to thousands of native speakers on Radio na Gaeltachta since the 70’s. Now we have the fabulous resource of TG4, both broadcast and on the internet. And thanks to the Web, I can immerse myself fully in Irish all day long if I want to, even though I live in Hawaii. When I go back to Ireland as a tourist, I never have any trouble finding someone to talk to in Irish. Can we stop whingeing about the state of Irish now and get on with our lives?

Just my view here, looking at how the welsh keep their language going and their close ties with England. I hated irish in school, learned more french in before inter cert than I could speak irish at leaving cert. Why? The way it’s thought and it’s not changing and its our school systam that will Kill Irish. Memorising unspeakable outdated ununderstandable poetry is no good for a spoken languge, i never learned 19th centuary french poetry in school, I learned to converse in french. Even english poetrt made no sense to most of it. Like des bishop said on the… Read more »

I’m English but my wife is a native of Co Mayo, and several times a year we tour around the Connemara and Mayo gaeltacht areas. My wife isn’t an Irish speaker, she has the same memories as tom and only remembers the negative aspects of being forced to learn it in school, but now in her late 30’s, she is becoming “culturally aware” of how much Ireland has lost, and is keen to learn Irish. We often seek out remote country pubs and restaurants where Irish speakers go, and the opinion of many Irish speaking residents is that the gaeltacht… Read more »

have just come across these comments about the irish language while cruising round cyberspace .i am third generation irish living in britain and a good few years ago decided that if i wanted to take up my irish citizenship then the least i could do in return would be to learn the language .perhaps as i learn’t the language as an adult and out of ireland i feel that i can be fairly objective about the situation. i have every confidence that the irish language will be with us for many years to come in one form or another–it may… Read more »

I returned to Ireland to find that I was excluded from many jobs in the public service because I did not speak Gaelic. My parents, grandparents, grandparents before them all spoke English. English is my native language. It is the language of poetry and scholarship for which this island became famous. It is also our foremost advantage in a globalised worId. I am Irish and proud to be so but a dead language has nothing to do with my national identity. I object to the majority having to fund the enormous expense of the Gaelic language for the benefit of… Read more »

I believe that the Irish language should be embraced, I do not understand Irish men and woman denouncing it as a dead, or soon to be, language. Stop talking about the current trend and do something about reversing the decline. Dont forget Irish has boombed since independence, although never back to its original level. Damn right im talking about national pride, the language was almost wiped out when a foreign language was forced upon us. So I think its our duty to make Irish more widely spoken, why cant we take back what is ours? Do we just lay down… Read more »

Sílim, tá sé bronách, is doigh leat é sin. Tá mé ag foghlaim Gaeilge ag rang oiche i Sasana agus tá bród orm as, níl sé an-decair. Ba cheart duit é. What is lost in a language can almost never be regained, it is hopeful that your children’s children don’t resent you for letting go of something that is still alive and still possible. It is hard to believe that the government can’t see how incredibly necessary free Irish langauge eductaion is, not just education in the language either, but education on whatv the language is, why it has been… Read more »