Did you ever have a teacher who was compassionate to his or her students? Did you have a teacher who took so much interest in individual pupils that they’d take the time to worry about whether the student was good enough for honours or pass papers? This was done with the welfare of the pupil in mind. Sometimes a pupil struggled with the complexities of an honours paper and just couldn’t get it. The teacher who advised that pupil to drop down wasn’t being harsh but was being fair and honest. Nothing is worse than irrational expectations which are subsequently dashed.
I have to ‘fess up. I have a soft spot for teachers. I am from a family of teachers on one side. Both my mother and one of my sisters are teachers, as are my uncles and aunts. Further back, there are teachers dotted around all over the place, so I am genetically pro-teacher. I also remember the teachers who influenced me years ago. These people made a huge impression on me and changed the way I looked at the world.
So it is with a certain amount of familial trepidation that I write this piece. However, it must be said loudly — particularly because sometimes teachers aren’t the best listeners.
Sensible teachers are being led up the garden path by their union leaders and their expectations will be dashed, leading to anger.
I heard the INTO national conference on the radio yesterday. Did you? If you did, you would have heard a union leadership who are living in cloud cuckooland. On the radio, I heard fighting talk about the Croke Park Agreement and how it is sacrosanct.
In normal times, few would disagree that teachers should get their dues. They should be well paid and well resourced. In fact, resources in primary should be increased, over all other levels of education, because we know that the more resources that are thrown at young children, the greater the outcome, in terms of kids from poor backgrounds getting a better education and a better ‘leg-up’ in life.
But from the point of view of salaries and pay rates, it seems that the idea that our country is bankrupt has evaded the teachers’ union leaders.
Teachers are not being singled out, nor are they being picked on. There just isn’t the cash out there.
It is very obvious that what is going on right now in Ireland is a titanic battle for the last of the troika money. It is the scrap for the last of the resources. But the cake is shrinking. Just witness the fall in industrial production, houses prices and credit aggregates in recent weeks. This means that everyone’s share will shrink with it, particularly if you are paid from a public purse which is getting smaller and smaller.
The story of the next few years will be one of wages falling relative to profits throughout the country. This is the natural process of economics in a credit crunch and the teachers are likely to suffer as a result.
Have a look at the accompanying chart because it explains one of the most important developments in the economy right now. It measures the ratio of profits to wages.
If a fight between profits and wages sounds Marxist, that’s because it is. Sometimes the best place to start in economics is with Marx. It might not be the best place to end up, but Marx is a good starting point.
According to Marx, there is capital and there is labour and they are in constant battle with each other. The return to labour is wages and the return to capital is profit. As one goes up, the other must go down.
The chart shows the return to labour and capital going back 14 years. Contrary to popular rhetoric, Ireland was a great place to be a worker in the boom, at least in terms of the return to labour. In contrast, it was a dreadful place to invest, in terms of the return to investment, profits.
In every year from 2002 to 2009, the ratio of wages to profits in the economy split in favour of wages. A full 10pc of total Irish income switched from profits to wages. This is a big swing.
It was one of the complaints you heard in the boom from small businesses, like bars and restaurants, that they couldn’t get workers and when they got them, they were so expensive that profit margins collapsed.
As unemployment fell, wages went up for the individual and obviously the general wage bill did too. This is what is supposed to happen. As most of us gain our income from wages, the object of all economies should be higher wages.
Because what’s the alternative? Lower wages? A low-wage objective is hardly the way to run a society.
Many people, unfortunately, reacted to this increase in wages by taking on more and more debts and therefore their wage increases and employment opportunities were matched with more debt.
NOW that the economy has turned, the natural tendency is for those big trends we saw in the boom to be reversed completely. As capital and credit are scarce, the return to capital will rise. So profits will rise in the years ahead in Ireland.
In contrast, the trend that is beginning to emerge in wages will become more and more evident. The boom process will be reversed and the Marxist analysis about who gets what will run it course.
This will also mean, as profits rise, that more and more people will try to set up businesses because you will make much more by taking risks now relative to looking for an employed position.
It has other ramifications too.
But for the Croke Park Agreement, the writing is on the wall. The State can’t afford it. Never mind all the spin we are seeing and hearing right now from the likes of the NTMA or the Department of Finance. There will be no going back to the markets next year. The Spanish and Italian bond markets are getting hammered. There is no way in the world that anyone is going to lend to Ireland, unless we offer a realistic way out of this and stop pretending that national wage deals signed in 2010 have any realistic hope of being paid.
It strikes me that the union bosses are leading their members up a garden path if they keep telling them that the commitments entered into in the Croke Park deal can be met. This can only lead to disappointment. And there are few things more irresponsible than false hope.
Look at this from the context of a teacher who has to consider an ambitious student. Mammy wants him to do an honours paper in the Leaving Cert. But you, the teacher, know he’s just not up to it and would be better off dropping to a pass and focusing on the subjects that he is good at.
What do you do? Do you tell him and save him the disappointment in August? Or do you raise his hopes, hopes that you know can never be fulfilled? It’s your choice.
The union bosses have the same choice.
Well said.
No David , wages must rise in Punts as debt cannot be repaid in deflating euro wages. The increased wages during the boom were a bank credit event rather then a organic fiat process with even goverment wages a product of taxed credit money. The euro experiment has been characterised by a massive deflation event since the 80s………with it exporting via finance our capital base to China & elsewhere (think of all those coal fired power stations built 2 a week & Moneypoint finished in 87) The banks re imported this wealth via credit to us so that we could… Read more »
David,
The cash is there in endless amounts to feed a criminal banking system and its psychos running away with the swag.
So, if we can print 30 billion out of thin air in the Central Bank for bondholders we can print a few bob extra to pay teachers what they in fact work for as opposed to banking criminals who steal.
What is it about teachers that makes them such a target? Police Social Workers Nurses Civil Servants What about social welfare? What about higher grades? What about CEO’s who take home millions while eviscerating their companies and communities? What about the increased cost of living? Quick point It now takes two “Teachers” who are on average teachers pay to pay the mortgage on an average Irish house and to pay bills etc (not talking about foreign holidays etc) In the 1970’s , my dad could afford the same on a blue collar salary and raise four children Real wages have… Read more »
Nice article , David. Like you my family are teachers. Mother, father, two sisters, Aunts, uncles and cousins too. Not all but a goodly 50% of the family. It was something I swore never to do! It takes a strong constitution to handle the stresses and remain healthy. In BC (British Columbia) we do not have the severity of the financial problems evident in Ireland, but we have similar political problems. As I travel back and forth ocassionally I am struck by how often what seems a”local” problem in BC is in fact enacted at the the same time with… Read more »
David, normally I agree with you on most things, and, in essence, I agree with most of what you say here. But there is the Large Elephant In The Room that is the bailout of the bondholders. While this is obviously a discussion about teachers’ pay, and in a larger way the Croke Park Agreement, one can’t really take this subject on its own. Not with that Elephant hanging round. By all accounts, the Croke Park goals are being met by the workers (mainly because the cuts in pay and the DTLs are being enforced). Compare this with the banks… Read more »
Yes David yes Let’s focus on the small employer, why should he employ even one person. The red tape,the headache ,the proposed sick pay,holiday pay next there be the rap me up in cotton wool for the employee. Then there’s the lack of work out there,the government want to force the banks to lend to small set ups, unless they are export lead what chance do these have . In case this thick government have forgotton the domistic economy is RIP, it all great start up a new company or expand an old one,but no body is spending money unless… Read more »
I’m not quite clear what exactly this article is saying. A union leader’s job is to ensure good pay and conditions for their union members, to do otherwise would be to not do their job, threatening a strong response to any cuts in wages, is doing that job. The force acting against the current rate of pay is strong (economic) so the threat against that has to be strong too, it’s perfectly logical, there’s nothing “outrageous” about it. The media ran with it, and you heard the usual complaints you’ve heard about teachers ever since phone lines were introduced to… Read more »
David, I believe that you are mistaken in believing that the union leadership is directing their members in any specific direction. The leadership is reflecting what the members are saying to them and conforming to their wishes. If you need to blame anybody, please place the blame where it should be placed, if there is any blame attaching.
From my perspective, the teachers threats represent a barometer of a deeply indebted and angry middle class in Ireland right now. The teachers are not as well paid as similarly qualified yet equally struggling people in the private sector. Sure, the security of a job is worth a lot, however having had 5 wage cutting budgets in a row, their partner losing their job, and going hungry so they can pay for the mortgage like the rest of us. The teachers are just like the rest of us, indebted to our eyeballs. The stress is building on all fronts and… Read more »
In a way, you are correct about Croke Park. But a few things before that. “In normal times, few would disagree that teachers should get their dues. ” This is actually incorrect. Teachers have always had to threaten or go on strike to get increases and usually prior requests, and then the threats are met with the usual invective from the media and the government. Teachers are an easy target because they are treated and seen as a current expenditure items rather than an investment item. To paraphrase Clinton ” It’s the education system, Stupid”. To get ourselves out of… Read more »
Today The Irish Government paid 1.5 billion to unsecured AIB bondholders.
http://namawinelake.wordpress.com/2012/04/11/old-media-failure-in-ireland-as-e1-5bn-is-paid-by-the-state-to-bondholders-in-a-single-day/
…..would this have anything to do with the inability of our government pay our teachers?
David, though I largely agree with you in this article, I remember your piece (about ten years ago?) about the teacher aspiring to the €1000 suit of clothes that their private sector brethren had. I never had such a suit, nor wanted one, but I got the point. The truth is, during the “Boom!” teachers got only “cost of living” pay-increases, buth these were BENEATH inflation percentages, if you check; ergo, pay DECREASES in terms of purchasing power. Croke Park Agreement should be SCRAPPED, but not for the popularly accepted reason. It does not, nor has it ever “protected” the… Read more »
Nice article David. I understand where you are coming from with you softly go gentle touch handling. However, let me give you the reality; get it on and stop the nambi pambi nonsense the public sector needs a wake up call. Those at the top need a dose of reality with a sledge hammer. The private sector funds the public sector. The public sector is out of line. The Croke Park agreement is a nonsense brought into play by idiotic politics promoted by Ahern et al. Kenny is in league with nonsense he was the very first to refuse pay… Read more »
David – Always when I read your books and articles there is a clear visible line of thought that is not all your own…..its your mothers discipline in the art she taught you …you have been very lucky.
Sorry David. This is bollocks.
Listen to your readers man!
Get a handle on that barometer
Tim,
Don’t agree with you that education is in crisis. It is the teachers who are going through a crisis. There is a digital education revolution taking place in the classroom and the teachers need to embrace this challenge. I recently met a few Irish teachers who thought that the whole thing was about having interactive white boards installed in their classrooms. They hadn’t really thought about using/developing digital resources and integrating all of this into their lesson plans. They have no real vision of what is really happening, and how education will work in coming years.
David,
Listen to your readers!
This is one of your best articles.
A reader.
David knows very well it is the job of unions to do their best for their members. Even if he wont say it, he knows it. The unions and the teachers know it too; just as they know what the real situation is economically; and how utterly inequitable it is; and in fact downright criminal. Is David seriously suggesting they should publicly announce at their national conference that they are going to lay down and roll over and obediently take the medicine handed down by the Troika? And does anyone who knows anything about the global crisis believe the cant… Read more »
Bloody school teachers. They got huge salary increases years ago before house prices rocketed and most of them had their mortgages paid off. These bloody unions have crippled the country and made us uncompetitive. Each salary hike from nurses, guards or firemen puts up the average industrial wage. That’s why DELL left our shores.
+1
Peterlydon,
I agree there is a lack of investment in education resources in Ireland. Of course, there is since all the money is being spent on the teachers salaries!
But something has to be done quite soon, as the present system is too outdated.
Social technology has its place in education and can be adapted to the needs and levels of pupils/students.
It is the parents and students themselves who are “introducing” their children to online educational resources. The teachers are way behind.
Fantastic article David & very brave.I am pro teacher as well.I have 4 children 3 in school & I feel that not matter how much they get paid they will be underpaid. As a former member of the sme group I agree about the wages in the boom.My company suffered greatly with this & sadly I closed it in 2010.I have lost every thing since including my marriage & health.I am trying to start again but my debts are preventing me.I think your view of the teachers is correct but they are not the only ones in the public sector… Read more »
Irish teachers have almost three months summer holidays, plus Christmas Holidays, midterm break, Easter holidays, and are among, if not the best paid in Europe. I have great respects for teachers with a good attitude, and I find specially that the ones in the Inner City or in small rural areas tend to complaint very little, but a majority of the better to do areas, were during the boom time absolutely unbearable, as if they had concerted their efforts to complaint on the airwaves, or in social functions, how much they work and how little they were paid, and with… Read more »
There is no necessary fight between labour and capital on the score of wages. Both need to understand that more than one-third of the economy–publicly-generated land and natural resource rents, the natural revenue base–is largely stolen by the almost invisible 0.1%, the rent-seeking rentier class who claim economic rent to be only 1% of the economy. http://thedepression.org.au/?p=7812 There’s a tax switch waiting to be found if we only have the wit – a switch from labour and capital and onto land and resource holding. It won’t affect Joe Sixpack as much as the 0.01% (who’d cry blue murder! of course)… Read more »
David you on the point, I teach in the special Ed area, I expect my wages to be cut in Jan 2013 10%+, but I fear if the CP deal stands until 2014 there’ll be a need for a 25-30% cut in civil service wages and that’s just for the mortals on 60k or less. Today I informed my mortgage provider that I want interest only payments for six months, giving me time to pay off other outstanding loans which I have consolidated with HSSCU, I’m getting my finances in order before years end, I agree some people need to… Read more »
I know this might sound like a fairly blunt statement to a lot of people in Ireland, but there is a push to turn the education system into the new HSE. Performance is faltering all over the place. The current and previous two ministers have responded by a strategy of apply the best PR stunt available. And the whole thing will end up being a mess. And I think that at this point in time it is pretty much certain to happen. All that is missing is a ESE (Education Services Executive) to be formed as a massive bureacracy to… Read more »
Concerning the labour versus capital argument, I think this is oversimplifying matters a bit. We also have another input factor – management. Ah yes….how good are we at management in this country ? Well, let’s see. FAS, CIE, the HSE, etc… Or maybe the private sector can do better. Alright let’s look at the anchor tenants of IBEC. AIB – oh, yes – hopping out of one debacle into another. Or maybe BoI. Ah yes, another collection of spoofers. What about Permo – oh…hold on, yet another collection of spoofers. There is something desperately wrong with the Irish concept of… Read more »
I did a word search on this article and comments. Vocation: not found Career: not found Job: lots of hits David begins this article by invoking ‘vocation’, then critiques ‘career’ and ends by positing a future of ‘jobs’. Teaching is, it appears, about to experience downward mobility, the middle-class securities of ‘vocation/career’ to be superceded by the working class idiom of ‘jobs’. But, of course, some jobs are more equal than others. A stratification is emerging within the teaching ‘profession’ as it morphs into a jobs feedlot. New entrants to the profession/career/job/trade will not be joining a career path or… Read more »
Simple as this … we’re fighting over a foreign pie while we should be planting for the future. Of course the government is loving this because it ignores the fact they don’t have a plan for the future… but while people continue to be selfish rather than demanding and expecting fair and reasonable cuts across the board, we’ll continue down the swannie.. and by fair and reasonable.. start properly at the top where people can afford it.
David, I salute you for this article, it’s long overdue. I hope you keep banging this drum.
It’s interesting but not surprising to see the usual suspects rise up out of the ashes to defend their self-interest ; as impervious to logic as ever.
+1
Their support for DMcW has only ever been because they thought he defended their interest.
They’re then ‘disappointed’ or whatever when he doesn’t defend their interest.
They are selfish people. DMcW is only useful to them when his arguments defend their selfish interest.
They think it’s the ‘banks versus the people’, when the reality is much more richly textured and complicated than that.
Teachers need to be given a 40% salary cut IMMEDIATELY. Their teacher and teaching effectiveness needs to be examined closely. Check out some online teaching on the web. As C21living said, maybe replace a lot of Irish teachers by Filipino teachers (would definitely increase ROI). Stop protecting teachers (Croke park agreement) and protect the pupils/students and put their interests/needs first. And since this article is about teachers pay, let’s look at some figures. My 8-year old son’s teacher (dear Madame Rousseau) here in Paris is on about €1600 net/month after 35 years of teaching (and her teaching day starts at… Read more »
David,
Nicely done. Was wondering when you would get to this.
Bank branch managers are still clearing 140k ! Most of them are bank employees since they were 16 !!
Bottom line is the vast majority of us are over paid. That’s private and public. The reason we are over paid is due to the rising house prices from the late 90’s. This fuelled with cheap credit peopled borrowed more and need more wages to buy house’s and the car’s. I’m not going to pass judgement on anyone who has a big mortgage , car loan credit cards credit union loans and whatever else they may have. The took out these loans when the times where good as people thought this was going to last forever. And the reason they… Read more »
This is just the most depressing series of comments I’ve ever read on this site. DMcW’s article had some good points, but none that we don’t already know and it ignored some obvious ones too. Most of it’s bad points, which were pointed out on the thread, pale into insignificance compared to the narrow-minded bickering that comprised much of the input from subscribers, many of them apparently new to this site. Many of the people commenting here need to get their heads out of their asses, take a look at the big picture and stop blaming other workers for the… Read more »
We always seem to miss the underlying points. We discuss teachers when as in the whole public service the processes and practices are a mess. The educational crriculum is way outdated. We teach the wrong things the wrong way. We are teaching boys as if they are male girls. We have no male role models in our primary schools. Our system is arts based not maths based. We have no physical education at most primary schools. We do not teach modern languages in most primary schools and please do not turn this into a Gaelgeoir debate. At secondary the teaching… Read more »
Are any of the smart heads on here today? I hope its not rude but I need some financial advice! Where should I put my E25 grand Sterling, I have a Rabbo account but they only hold euros, Aib do sterling accounts or should I travel to the UK and open a sterling account there. I don’t want to hold euros, its obvious that the thing is going to collapse and I have a baby now so am a bit worried!
David why don’t you do a story on where we will be in 3/5 years if we keep going on this mad road we are being force to take . If petrol/ diesel keep going up as I can see most things are linked into this ,and for the ones of us who don’t have a state paying job or a pension that has benign destroyed we will be the new poor because what we take home in money terms will stay the same. So if I take home say 400 euros a week in 2013 and still take home… Read more »
Taking money off teachers isn’t going to solve our problems, in fact it may add to them through reduced spending by such a sizable community. The problem with Croke Park is that it is divisive, in that it guarantees a further layer of protection to an already well protected group in a time of national crisis. It’s viewed by the ordinary citizen as the equivalent of draft dodging in past wars. Money is not the important issue here, it’s the principle that counts. The damage is done and even a late gesture of solidarity with the plight of the ordinary… Read more »
Molly good point, that’s an article I’d like to read – its only a couple of generations since the rural irish barely went to the shop for anything. Those public servants you mentioned in this country are like the aristocracy, I agree, who says we don’t have a class system.
We cannot tell the bondholders to f*** off until we stop borrowing money from the ECB. Its like the ruling classes of Europe have a gun to our head or was that a bomb that was going off somewhere ?? Everyone knows we cannot pay back all the debt but we will be told to pay as much as possible for thye next 50 years. Germany know all about reparations and they will be teaching the Irish people and the Greeks how to knuckle under and do their bidding. Alternatively we can balance the books which will mean serious pay… Read more »
David says “The story of the next few years will be one of wages falling relative to profits throughout the country. This is the natural process of economics in a credit crunch and the teachers are likely to suffer as a result. If a fight between profits and wages sounds Marxist, that’s because it is. Sometimes the best place to start in economics is with Marx. It might not be the best place to end up, but Marx is a good starting point. According to Marx, there is capital and there is labour and they are in constant battle with… Read more »
christ that’s interesting, I don’t know if I should set spuds of flee the country! How much do you need to buy gold I wonder?
3.5 billion Euro paid out this week!
http://bondwatchireland.blogspot.com/2012/04/dirty-dozen-we-april-15th-2012.html?spref=tw
Yes The massive energy prices. Now theres an interesting thought. We have a labour minister for energy and prices have increased . What has Pat rabitte actually done for the taxpayer? He is shivering in his boots when it comes to the task of taking on the ESB unions. He likes to pontificate though about things on planet Pat. I saw him on the frontline telling some guy to tog out and get into politics if he wanted to enforce change. So if you dont like his half assed lame ability to actually change anything you should get into politics.… Read more »
subscribe.
Thanks for a great article David, I have repeatedly asked you to come off the fence regarding the Croke Park ATM… sorry I mean the Croke Park Agreement, and you have finally delivered, and delivered as I expected you to do, as it is rational, informed and unemotional analysis. But it’s not just teachers, it’s guards, nurses, firemen oops sorry it’s firefighters these days thanks to our politically correct friends assertions, et al that need to be sat down, have their hand held, and told that the money just isn’t there in a bankrupt country to continue paying them handsomely… Read more »
“Did you ever have a teacher who was compassionate to his or her students?” No David because teachers are not in the business of being compassionate. What makes you imagine that they would be compassionate? Way I remember it is that there was never any spare love going in school and the church was just the same. It was not designed for understanding, human bonding and compassion I had some teachers who were very very good and made a lasting impression. I went to an ordinary secondary school and am glad I did. I now know whole families who work… Read more »