Immigration is not just an economic problem, it is cultural, and the Irish government has to make strong choices as to what direction it wants to take when it comes to policies.
The deportation of members of a Roma family this week is a tipping point. It focuses our minds on the issue of immigration and -more to the point- raises the question of what exactly is Ireland’s immigration policy?
In the years ahead, this will be one of the main economic questions facing the country, because the number of people wanting to come here from all over the world is increasing by the day. Let’s just put the issue in context: this year, global migration has reached its highest ever level, according to the International Organisation for Migration (IOM).
The Geneva-based organisation says there are now about 150 million people on the move worldwide – just under 3 per cent of the world population. That is 30 million more than ten years ago and 37 times the population of Ireland.
Immigration is not just an economic conundrum that can be reduced to the needs of the economy and industry; immigration is cultural. Immigrants change the face and complexion of the host society and it is up to the hosts to decide the extent of this transformation. In addition, all immigration policies discriminate.
Host countries chose what type of people they want to let in and what type of people they want to keep out. This difficult but essential choice is something that Ireland will have to consider in the future.
Take countries like Canada and Australia. Both these societies base immigration on a points system and if a person has a certain qualification that is deemed lacking, then the potential immigrant has a chance to get in. This is discrimination. In recent years, the US has made it easier for immigrants from certain Asian countries to enter the US than European immigrants.
This is discrimination. With the Morrison visas, the US allowed thousands of Irish to get a green card – yet more discrimination. So immigration involves discrimination and that discrimination can be based on a variety of benchmarks.
In the case of the Morrison visa, the discrimination towards the Irish was purely racial. In the case of the Canadians wanting medics with certain qualifications, the discrimination was educational and also, as a result, likely to be class-based.
At the moment, Irish immigration policy is framed in London not Brussels. Because of the border with the North, whatever the British do, we follow. So when London said in 2004 that all people from the accession countries could work in Britain – in contrast to most EU countries – we followed suit.
When last year Downing Street decided that Bulgarians and Romanians could enter Britain on a more restrictive basis, we introduced the very same policy. In fact you could say that Gordon Brown sets Ireland’s immigration policy.
So what might our future immigration policy look like? Before we answer this question let’s analyse what immigration does to a country from an economic perspective.
Remember that economics is colour-blind, it doesn’t see race, culture or creed and simply deals with the factual effects. This can give us an idea of who is likely to be a winner and who is likely to be a loser from mass immigration.
Classic economic theory tells us that immigration is bad for workers and good for bosses and landlords. The reason is the following: the immigrants compete in the labour market with the local workers.
This ultimately leads towages being lower than they would otherwise be. We see this happening on building sites all over the country every day. With immigrants making up close to 30 per cent of all workers in construction, competition is particularly acute in hard-hat land.
Obviously, anything that reduces the cost of labour means more money for the employer. So we can easily see how local workers suffer and local employers thrive. We have seen this pattern time and again all over the world.
On the other hand, the immigrants have to live somewhere. So they compete with the local workers in the housing market, driving up rents and ultimately house prices. Again, the local worker/renter suffers, but the local landlord makes more cash than he otherwise would get if the immigrants hadn’t arrived in the first place. So the local workers get shafted twice.
Economics also has something to say about the battle for other resources in the economy. Take, for example, schools.
The immigrants, by increasing the school-going population, put much bigger demands on the system than would otherwise be the case, leading to overcrowding, special teaching facilities and demands for more capacity. Obviously if the host country is receiving a tiny fraction of its overall population, these capacity issues are marginal.
When, as is the case in Ireland, the population jumps by 10 per cent, it creates a logistical challenge.
Immigrants also pay taxes, generate ideas and jobs among themselves and in so doing pay for themselves. Most experiences of immigrant communities reveal that they are hungrier to progress and thus work harder than the locals. They are often more ambitious for their children and bring a drive and an energy to the society that has a positive impact.
But this doesn’t take away from the fact that there are winners and losers. The losers are usually local workers and the winners are normally the local bosses and landlords. Not surprisingly, therefore, views on immigration depend on who is articulating them and immigration policy will reflect the interests of those who are framing it.
An immigration policy made by landlords and developers would obviously seek to increase the number of immigrants to maximise rents and house prices. In contrast, an immigration policy written by bricklayers might want to restrict or reverse immigration altogether, so that the hourly wage for the brickie would rise, free from competition from thousands of Poles and Lithuanians on the site.
Maybe one of the reasons that we don’t have this type of clear thinking on the economic impacts of immigration is that the agenda, particularly in the media, is set by people whose livelihood will never be threatened by immigrants. As a result an ‘immigration is good’ bias emerges.
Typically, the journalists and academics who appear on the talk shows and write in the papers (including this scribbler) are unlikely to be usurped by an immigrant who can do the job cheaper in the next few years.
But the printer who prints the paper or the electrician who lights the TV studio might feel threatened and might have a different take on the issue.
In the years ahead, if we are to avoid the mistakes of other countries, we have to listen to all sides on immigration. Having listened, we then need to formulate an Irish solution to an Irish dilemma. Nobody else is going to do this for us.
Most importantly – and this might be difficult for some who believe that our own emigrant history should be a factor in our decision – we have to be rational. Being rational demands that Ireland will have to learn to discriminate and live with it.
July 28th 2007 Hi David, Sitting out here on Vancouver Island, British Columbia I always enjoy your insight into the affairs of Ireland and such was the case with your article on Immigration into Eire. The bulk of the article though, focused on the economic consequences of the migrants arriving on Irish soil and as I read through it I was expecting your discussion to also focus on what might be called the other side of that coin:the political effects the migrants could surely have on Irish society. I suggest that if inward migration continues at the present rate (I… Read more »
David,
The vast majority of immigrants to Ireland come from other EU states. We can’t control immigration from these countries in the long-term. Are you suggesting that Ireland should leave the EU? That sure would put a stop to immigration!
Actually alot of immigrants come from outside the EU (India, Paikistan, Africa, Indonesia). Migrants will come from a country with a low GDP and will emigrate to a country with a high GDP. Since most countries in the EU have an equal GDP then you do not have much migration. In order to stop migration from happening throughout the World then we must improve the quality of life in all countries around the World. This can be done as follows: 1 Getting rid of the World Trade Organisation, World Bank and IMF. 2 Setting up economic zones throughout the World.… Read more »
Actually Glenn only about 1/3 of immigrants to Ireland are from outside the EU and there are big differences in GDP within the EU. I don’t see why your proposed economic zones need to be divided by religion either. Where would that leave the EU? The EU has got traditionally Anglican countries, traditionally Calvinist countries, traditionally Lutheran countries, traditionally Catholic countries and traditionally Greek Orthodox countries as members. I don’t buy into David’s assertions that immigration drives down wages either. As a New Zealand paper* on the economic impacts of immigration stated, the’ measured impact of immigration on the wages… Read more »
Hi Stephen, In the original 12 EU countries the GDP gap was quite small except for that of Ireland. That is why there was massive emigration from Ireland to the EU but not much of a migration within the rest of the EU. I did not agree with the EU expansion because when I looked at the GDP gap with countries like Poland, Estonia, etc the gap is quite big and so it was obvious that there would be a big migration from these countries to the other European countries. The gap now within the EU of GDP is now… Read more »
Glen, please!
take care of “their” and “there”
“there was massive emigration from Ireland” – fine
“there religion is part of there government” – aahhh please no!!!
“As a New Zealand paper* on the economic impacts of immigration stated, the’ measured impact of immigration on the wages of native workers fluctuates widely from study to study (and sometimes even within the same study) but seems to cluster around zero’.” I would not regard New zealand or australia as bench marks to study the affects of immigration. This is because they have a very strict and discrimatory system as david has pointed out. So yes in new zealand “the cluster around zero” has been engineered by the strict immigration system, lower paid workers in new zealand are protected… Read more »
+1 for the views in the article but “Typically, the journalists and academics who appear on the talk shows and write in the papers (including this scribbler) are unlikely to be usurped by an immigrant who can do the job cheaper in the next few years.” Dont be too sure, theres a young Russian lad who’s on every talk show in Ireland and edits Business&Finance…. I hear he’s works hard, gives good doom-laden speeches and is cheap and reliable :) and back a few months ago, the business sub-editors in the Irish Independent were complaining their jobs were being out-sourced….… Read more »
I’m afraid the word ‘discrimination’ has been smeared with selective usage over the past couple of decades. It used to have a positive meaning and is a close relative of the word discernment. Both involve the skill of grasping and selecting differences. Discernment, however, has come to mean grasping the good of something but discrimination (especially when applied to people) has followed a nasty downward path and probably now resides closer to words associated with severe wrongdoing e.g. ‘murder’ These days, to merely suggest you might be in favour of some forms of discrimination risks all sorts of labels being… Read more »
David focused on the economic question – but did mention that immigration has a cultural side. Brian Breathnach touched on one aspect of immigrants – how they act as a swing vote. These are critical questions. First culturally: A pure gut feeling is that the injection of various cultural infusions have been – in general – a hugely positive thing. But this is very hard to measure. Has anyone tried? Plus it throws up very interesting questions – such as language policy. For so long language policy in Ireland meant An Ghaeilge. Now arguably far bigger language issues arise –… Read more »
I think David makes some fairly basic and straight-forward arguments that probably do not differ from the thoughts of main-stream Ireland. However I would disagree with his assertion that the reason the media does not put-forward a selective immigration approach is due to their jobs not being in danger but more due to the entrenched liberal bias in the media. The liberal forces or ‘lefties’ take unchecked immigration as a given along with continuation of benefit-dependency, a focus on the criminal’s rights rather than the victim’s and allowing people who are anti-social or anti-society to make a mockery of the… Read more »
Let’s go with the point of view of an immigrant. I’m Spanish, so I’m an EU immigrant that comes from a country with proper infrastructures, health system and transport system and with a, relatively, good job market. I’m here because I wanted to improve my English, learn about your culture & improve my salary. I stay here because I like your country, I like your people and I’ve became used to your way of life. The salary no longer is a big point to stay. What I see is that Irish people is day by day increasing the number of… Read more »
“In general we need to see a huge effort at building social and political infrastructure which can prevent ghettoization of immigrants. ” Nothing is going to stop the ghettoization of immigrants with a significantly different culture to the host society. Human beings are ethnic, tribal or in-group particularists, a fact acknowledged by the multi-culti’s themselves when they applaud the Chinese “community”, or the muslim “community” in Ireland. Communities are not isolated groups of individuals scattered around a city, or country, but ethnic ghettos ( although the term ghetto has gained a pejorative spin , a ghetto is nothing more, nor… Read more »
Interesting that no poster or David has mentioned the Big G = Globalisation. No matter how selective we look at resources, the ERA of globalisation that we find ourselves in involves the flow of capital AND labour. Interfering with these flows (markets) have been a risky game for many governments. The more protective a government becomes the more the national economy loses in the long term. Is there really a big difference between a trade tariff and an immigration discrimination policy? There is a simple test of course for all those who seem to have discovered some moral/cultural stance for… Read more »
“Is there really a big difference between a trade tariff and an immigration discrimination policy?” Yes, because trade enriches people and immigration pushed down wages, creates ethnic division, costs money, resources and makes homogeneous States less stable. In fact Islamic immigration may well be an existential threat to Europe. Japan is the richest country in the world, is getting richer per-capita, and does not need immigration. The “Big G” is an Anglo-Saxon concept whose day is done ( trade barriers are on their way back). The Chinese, Japanese, or Indians control their borders, and they are the future world powers.… Read more »
I think we waste too much energy on schemes to keep the wrong people out, when we should rather stop encouraging people to come for the wrong reasons, and strengthen and renew those elements of our culture that have attracted those immigrants of whom we are rightly proud. Ireland is a unique civilization, in which people of all cultures have made homes for themselves. Not all came to suck the social welfare tit. The desire to achieve a decent life for yourself and your family is a noble one, especially when centuries of English rule and Protestant ascendancy have beaten… Read more »
“Nobody here is opposed, not david or the commentators, to limited migration of skilled people who are culturally likely to fit in.”
“Islamic immigration may well be an existential threat to Europe”
“We are opposed to the magnitude of the migration because of it’s immoral effects on the working classes of this country”
Dom, I get the impression that you believe you speak for a majority of people in Ireland. I sincerely hope that is not the case.
Henry Barth wrote “Ireland is a unique civilization, in which people of all cultures have made homes for themselves”. Ireland unique in being home to many cultures? What about the US – far more diverse than Ireland and where nearly everyone is either an immigrant or descended from one who came as an immigrant. Or Canada? Or our neighbours in Britain, with millions of Asians, and about 2 or 3 million who are Irish or descended from Irish who went there over the last few generations. In fact, with the successive waves of migration over the last 100 years or… Read more »
” Dom, I get the impression that you believe you speak for a majority of people in Ireland. I sincerely hope that is not the case.” Of course you doubt it since you are a member, no doubt, of the Dublin 4 Oligarchy, The fact that the immoral reduction of working people’s wages evident in mass immigration means nothing to your, or your sickening class, reveals the depth of your sickening depravity and complete control of the media. As for Islam, the only way it cannot be a threat to Europe if it fails to be islam, since Islam believes… Read more »
I am a (semi-) ugly American who spent 2 months in Ireland in 2006–I was shocked by the impact of immigration on Irish society, culture, economy, and the rest–the Paddies have been duped by the EU into taking whatever comes their way from Eastern Europe and from other parts of the world (the sight of Muslim women in head scarves in Ireland was sickening!)–in the long run, the cost to Ireland will be high–not only in immigrant demand for the social services and welfare benefits of the Irish nation, but in the obliteration of the Irish culture–famed economist Milton Freedman… Read more »
“Islamic immigration may well be an existential threat to Europe” I’d certainly agree that the question of Islamic immigration must be better looked at by this country. At one stage I dated a lovely Muslim girl – as she was pretty serious about her religion (though was by Islamic standards rather liberal in outlook), and I wasn’t too pushed, if it went anywhere, kids would have had to be Muslim. Based on that I did quite a lot of reading as well as talking to Muslims on-line, ex-Muslims etc. Let’s just say that I was quite shocked by their values… Read more »
Hi Cian, I completly agrree with you. I’ve been living in the UK for the last two years and before that I was in Belgium. I’ve been trying to warn my friends in Ireland as to the danger of Islam. The problem with Islam in my view is that they have mixed state and religion together, in theory an Islamic country can never have democracy and must always be ruled by their religion. I have had the same experience as yourself. What alot of people do not understand is that Islam has to have a reformation, the way Christianity had… Read more »
Hi David, As someone who was displaced from a job because of an immigrant, I would like to say a couple of things about immigration. Firstly, Immigration is bad for Ireland. As a country of only 4 million people, we cannot allow the same level of immigration as other countries like Germany since they have a much bigger population (82 million). In my opinion, Ireland needs a much tighter immigration policy towards non-EU immigrants. Asylum seekers who fail should be immediately deported and the ID card system for non-EU immigrants needs to be sped up and implemented as soon as… Read more »